Talmud
Dr. Joel Roth · February 24, 1998
JOEL ROTH:
Hello everyone. My name is Joel Roth. I am a Professor of Talmud at the Jewish Theological Seminary.
About a year ago I agreed to experiment with a course in Talmud on the Internet, and never have had such an exciting educational experience. In our first year we had about six TA's and me working out a course with about 50 students from all over the country. It was really an experience tailoring the study of Talmud to this medium.
In the long run, I think we did a good job. What we ended up doing was focusing on small selections of Talmud which featured structures of argument. I don't know whether those in the Chat room have an idea of what I am talking about. The Talmud uses some set patterns of questioning in order to clarify and explain, and we focused on those. It worked pretty well.
This year we are doing it again with a variety of groups from all over the country. It is amazing. For a guy who started this process as almost a computer illiterate, I never cease to be amazed.
Anyhow, I don't think you need to hear from me endlessly. Just know that I believe that the study of Talmud is the key to the Jewish soul. That is why it is studied, and that is why it ought to be studied.
Now, I am ready for your questions or comments. Thanks for listening. You don't necessarily have to stick to my introductory remarks.
JOSHUA HELLER (MODERATOR):
This is Joshua Heller
I'll be moderating- when you folks post your questions, I'll pass them along to Rabbi Roth. (he can't neccesarily see everything typed in this window if people type a lot while he's also typing) Anyone have any thoughts? Maxine- I know that you are in one of the adult ed sections.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Hi again Joel. I'm not Jewish, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some fairly basic questions.....
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
Why was the decision made to teach Talmud online--between the relative obscurity of the text and the language challenges, I would have thought that literature would be an easier project for online education.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I am looking forward to making some connections to today's laws and mores, and perhaps looking for some keys to our own continuity as Jews as well as the universal wisdom I hope to find for society as a whole. Somehow we have been sustained as a people by our love of Torah and Talmud.
JOEL ROTH:
Literature might be easier, but not more important. We tried to figure out a way to make it comprehensible even in this medium, Jacob.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Ok. Let's totally put my ignorance on display with one wild blow. What who/is Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
Aimee, don't feel bad about asking fundamental questions.
Talmud, basically, is a long commentary on the Torah, written over a span of about 700 years. It is divided into two parts. The Mishnah, 63 small volumes, topically organized, written and edited in about 200 of the Common Era. And the Gemara, which is an expansive commentary and discussion of the Mishnah. Together these constitute the Talmud. When we speak of "The Rabbis," we generally mean the sages of this literature. To say a commentary on the Torah is a bit of an oversimplification, but not entirely false. They lived in Israel and in Babylonia, beginning about 200 Before the common Era, until about 500 After the Common Era.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Who is responsible for the writing of the Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
A word to Maxine, if she is still there.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
Rabbi, Is there a different religious significance to Talmud--that is, do Jews consider it having a divine inspiratioon or is it a human interpretation of Torah?
JOEL ROTH:
Maxine, the Talmud remains the basic text of Jewish law to this day. All legalists look to it as the ultimate authority. But, it takes some time to learn how to use it correctly.
Whether to consider the Talmud directly Divine depends on one's theological perspective.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
So today's legal system is based on the Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
Some Orthodox rabbis would make that claim, but most Conservative rabbis would recognize it as human.
Aimee, yes, today's Jewish legal system is still based on the Talmud. Of course, a lot has happened since the Talmud, and the system has not stood still, but still we are based on it. It is sort of like saying that the American system is still based on the Constitution even though you couldn't just read the Constitution itself. Is this at all clear?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
I might add that the centrality of Talmud to Judaism cannot be overstated, that it is the sole focus of traditional Jewish education beyond a young age, occluding even Bible study. Is this right? Meaning 'accurate', not 'justified'
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I have heard and read many sayings and stories form Talmud as well, things that are not purely law.
JOEL ROTH:
There is no question that classical Jewish education was heavily weighted to Talmud. Kids studied Talmud forever. Bible was not so often studied separately from it.
Joshua Heller in New York
I asked Rabbi Roth what he meant by that..
JOEL ROTH:
Maxine is, of course, correct. The Talmud is much more than purely law. Remember I said that the Gemara is expansive. Part of that entails wide-reaching discussion of things that are not strictly legal at all. All of the stuff is there because the encounter with the Divine takes forms beyond the law, too.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I look forward to our course. I've got to put my kids to bed. Goodnight.
JOEL ROTH:
Nice to meet you.
Back to an earlier comment of Josh's. It seems that in the Middle Ages they studied Bible in addition to Talmud. The yeshivot of Europe put much less emphasis on Bible.
Aimee and Jacob, have you got anything else to ask or comment on? Don't be bashful!
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Are there any more questions?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
I never understood how Torah could be replaced as the primary text and object of study. What is the justification for this?
JOEL ROTH:
Jacob, have you ever tried to study Talmud?
Josh, since Torah means what the Sages of Israel say it means, which should be studied more, the Torah or the Sages?
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Good question
JOEL ROTH:
How many study the Constitution today, as opposed to studying the Constitution as understood by the courts?
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
Rabbi Roth--I studied it a while ago, but didn't really like it (too much obfuscation). I am, however, interested in new net initiatives, like learning, which is why I stopped by.
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
But the decisions of the courts can only be understood by lawyers. It's much easier for me to read the Mishna than the more circumlocutious commentaries as a lay person.
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Let me suggest that we wrap up
Aimee- are you still out there?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
OK, Rabbi Roth, how would you advise an interested lay person today to consider the place of Talmud?
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Martin, I think you are "last question" unless Aimee has anything else.
JOEL ROTH:
Martin, the Talmud is still the soul of the Jew. It sometimes takes a little time, however, to appreciate it. That's why we're teaching this course. It is a first step.
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
Thank you Rabbi, and goodnight.
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
'night, all.
JOEL ROTH:
I am convinced, however, that it has to be done through the text of the Talmud itself, not just talking about what the Talmud says.
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Thanks everyone for participating.
The Seminary's distance learning project is sponsored by the Kaminer Family Foundation. If you'd like to learn more about Rabbi Roth's online course, or other courses, point your browser to http://www.jtsa.edu/ Goodnight everyone.
Dr. Joel Roth · February 24, 1998
JOEL ROTH:
Hello everyone. My name is Joel Roth. I am a Professor of Talmud at the Jewish Theological Seminary.
About a year ago I agreed to experiment with a course in Talmud on the Internet, and never have had such an exciting educational experience. In our first year we had about six TA's and me working out a course with about 50 students from all over the country. It was really an experience tailoring the study of Talmud to this medium.
In the long run, I think we did a good job. What we ended up doing was focusing on small selections of Talmud which featured structures of argument. I don't know whether those in the Chat room have an idea of what I am talking about. The Talmud uses some set patterns of questioning in order to clarify and explain, and we focused on those. It worked pretty well.
This year we are doing it again with a variety of groups from all over the country. It is amazing. For a guy who started this process as almost a computer illiterate, I never cease to be amazed.
Anyhow, I don't think you need to hear from me endlessly. Just know that I believe that the study of Talmud is the key to the Jewish soul. That is why it is studied, and that is why it ought to be studied.
Now, I am ready for your questions or comments. Thanks for listening. You don't necessarily have to stick to my introductory remarks.
JOSHUA HELLER (MODERATOR):
This is Joshua Heller
I'll be moderating- when you folks post your questions, I'll pass them along to Rabbi Roth. (he can't neccesarily see everything typed in this window if people type a lot while he's also typing) Anyone have any thoughts? Maxine- I know that you are in one of the adult ed sections.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Hi again Joel. I'm not Jewish, so I hope you don't mind if I ask some fairly basic questions.....
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
Why was the decision made to teach Talmud online--between the relative obscurity of the text and the language challenges, I would have thought that literature would be an easier project for online education.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I am looking forward to making some connections to today's laws and mores, and perhaps looking for some keys to our own continuity as Jews as well as the universal wisdom I hope to find for society as a whole. Somehow we have been sustained as a people by our love of Torah and Talmud.
JOEL ROTH:
Literature might be easier, but not more important. We tried to figure out a way to make it comprehensible even in this medium, Jacob.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Ok. Let's totally put my ignorance on display with one wild blow. What who/is Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
Aimee, don't feel bad about asking fundamental questions.
Talmud, basically, is a long commentary on the Torah, written over a span of about 700 years. It is divided into two parts. The Mishnah, 63 small volumes, topically organized, written and edited in about 200 of the Common Era. And the Gemara, which is an expansive commentary and discussion of the Mishnah. Together these constitute the Talmud. When we speak of "The Rabbis," we generally mean the sages of this literature. To say a commentary on the Torah is a bit of an oversimplification, but not entirely false. They lived in Israel and in Babylonia, beginning about 200 Before the common Era, until about 500 After the Common Era.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
Who is responsible for the writing of the Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
A word to Maxine, if she is still there.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
Rabbi, Is there a different religious significance to Talmud--that is, do Jews consider it having a divine inspiratioon or is it a human interpretation of Torah?
JOEL ROTH:
Maxine, the Talmud remains the basic text of Jewish law to this day. All legalists look to it as the ultimate authority. But, it takes some time to learn how to use it correctly.
Whether to consider the Talmud directly Divine depends on one's theological perspective.
AIMEE LINGMAN IN CANADA:
So today's legal system is based on the Talmud?
JOEL ROTH:
Some Orthodox rabbis would make that claim, but most Conservative rabbis would recognize it as human.
Aimee, yes, today's Jewish legal system is still based on the Talmud. Of course, a lot has happened since the Talmud, and the system has not stood still, but still we are based on it. It is sort of like saying that the American system is still based on the Constitution even though you couldn't just read the Constitution itself. Is this at all clear?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
I might add that the centrality of Talmud to Judaism cannot be overstated, that it is the sole focus of traditional Jewish education beyond a young age, occluding even Bible study. Is this right? Meaning 'accurate', not 'justified'
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I have heard and read many sayings and stories form Talmud as well, things that are not purely law.
JOEL ROTH:
There is no question that classical Jewish education was heavily weighted to Talmud. Kids studied Talmud forever. Bible was not so often studied separately from it.
Joshua Heller in New York
I asked Rabbi Roth what he meant by that..
JOEL ROTH:
Maxine is, of course, correct. The Talmud is much more than purely law. Remember I said that the Gemara is expansive. Part of that entails wide-reaching discussion of things that are not strictly legal at all. All of the stuff is there because the encounter with the Divine takes forms beyond the law, too.
MAXINE COHEN LANDO IN MIAMI:
I look forward to our course. I've got to put my kids to bed. Goodnight.
JOEL ROTH:
Nice to meet you.
Back to an earlier comment of Josh's. It seems that in the Middle Ages they studied Bible in addition to Talmud. The yeshivot of Europe put much less emphasis on Bible.
Aimee and Jacob, have you got anything else to ask or comment on? Don't be bashful!
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Are there any more questions?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
I never understood how Torah could be replaced as the primary text and object of study. What is the justification for this?
JOEL ROTH:
Jacob, have you ever tried to study Talmud?
Josh, since Torah means what the Sages of Israel say it means, which should be studied more, the Torah or the Sages?
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Good question
JOEL ROTH:
How many study the Constitution today, as opposed to studying the Constitution as understood by the courts?
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
Rabbi Roth--I studied it a while ago, but didn't really like it (too much obfuscation). I am, however, interested in new net initiatives, like learning, which is why I stopped by.
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
But the decisions of the courts can only be understood by lawyers. It's much easier for me to read the Mishna than the more circumlocutious commentaries as a lay person.
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Let me suggest that we wrap up
Aimee- are you still out there?
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
OK, Rabbi Roth, how would you advise an interested lay person today to consider the place of Talmud?
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Martin, I think you are "last question" unless Aimee has anything else.
JOEL ROTH:
Martin, the Talmud is still the soul of the Jew. It sometimes takes a little time, however, to appreciate it. That's why we're teaching this course. It is a first step.
MARTIN KAMINER IN NEW YORK:
Thank you Rabbi, and goodnight.
JACOB IN MADISON, WI:
'night, all.
JOEL ROTH:
I am convinced, however, that it has to be done through the text of the Talmud itself, not just talking about what the Talmud says.
JOSHUA HELLER IN NEW YORK:
Thanks everyone for participating.
The Seminary's distance learning project is sponsored by the Kaminer Family Foundation. If you'd like to learn more about Rabbi Roth's online course, or other courses, point your browser to http://www.jtsa.edu/ Goodnight everyone.
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